>> i'm willing to grant a little bit of gene because even a crossover will use less gas. any environmental benefits are chump change on the sidelines because the real goal of this was basically another bailout for detroit and for autoworkers who have had a rough time over the past couple of years, but kids, it is a cyclical industry, and when consumers aren't buying, they aren't buying. they knew that going in. >> swapping the newer cars often makes people drive more, so the fuel efficiency -- i mean, we're going to be using a lot of fuel anyway. >> exactly, brenda. one study says that even if this program is 100% successful, the reduction in carbon co2 emissions, you know, versus what the plan is producing is .001%. that's if people don't drive any less, but of course they will. people are going to get out there and say, wow, i got this great new ford focus that gets, who knows, 30 miles a gallon, i can drive a little bit more. of course they're going to drive more. what's going to happen is you will see that fuel emissions won't get anywhere near that reduction. in fact